current Base situation

Andinat0r
Rekrut
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Joined: Tue 10. Sep 2019, 19:08

current Base situation

Post by Andinat0r » Tue 10. Sep 2019, 19:14

Dear Armajunkies Team, dear Community,

We love playing Arma and we love playing on this Server, ever since we started experiencing Arma.
This server introduced us to the vast world of wasteland and beyond, but recently the server seems to have changed.
Bases started popping up more and more.
And with the bases more and more areas which cant be traveled appeared.
Missions in or around certain towns can now not longer be completed, without being wiped directly after it.
We (RAWR) do not mind being wiped.
We do not mind being nuked by a tank from 2km away.
We do not mind being shot by a skilled sniper.
Because in theory you can counter it.

What we do mind is being shot for the Xth time from the save cover of a base.
To be utterly destroyed, no matter how good we play, becaue 4km away somebody is camping behind closed walls.
It seems to be impossible to counter that.

We believe it destroys the fun we have in this game on this server.
We believe that doing missions from your base, without any risk involved breaks the last rule:
fair fight
We hope to open a discussion and a dialogue with this copmplaint and maybe find a middleground,
because as we said above - we love playing this game and we love this server and this open commuinity.
We are looking forward to your replies

Bests
RAWR

TalkToFrank
Rekrut
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat 28. Jan 2017, 16:16

Re: current Base situation

Post by TalkToFrank » Mon 30. Mar 2020, 20:20

Hello fellow Comrades,

I would also like to pitch in, as it has gotten next to impossible to do anything on the south eastern Island of the Tanoa archipelago without getting killed or at least harassed by the base that sits in its middle.
I do understand that it took and still takes the team controlling it quite the effort to keep it up.
But there is no way of combating it. Whenever you fire a missile at the tanks that show themselves, the doors revealing it, close.
There needs to be a way of getting rid of bases, or at least increasing the upkeep-costs significantly so that bases like that (presumably 200+ objects) can only be held when the members keep carrying in the gold coins by the truckload.
Another thing that might work, would be to limit the time a base can exist, i.e. only for 1-3 months. After that, it has to be either dismantled and can't be rebuilt in a 3km range, or deleted outright (first one is the best option IMO).
For your Bases AJ's, do whatever you please. Even though that base at the airport in Altis is annoying, you rarely camp in there just for the sake of camping.

YS :TANK:
TalkToFrank

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DieHardly
Rekrut
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Re: current Base situation

Post by DieHardly » Tue 31. Mar 2020, 16:36

I guess the biggest problem of this example - and defently some bases on Altis,too - is the fact, that there can not be a real "fair fight" against a base which hase a tank turret up. Especially if the tank turret can be opened and closed in ANY time. It would help a lot, if a tank-turret door is not allowed to get closed, once it has been opened in a fight. (personally I would wish that tank-turrets are not allowed in gernal, but it's not about my wishes, it's about what's fair)
What's happening right now (not only in the here called example) is that a turret-door opens, the tank opens fire and as soon as it get's hit or a potential thread get's spotted it gets closed just in the middle of a fight. Ofcourse behind the tank there are resupply and repair trucks - which make the tank pretty undestroyable as long as the attacker doesn't have hell of luck.

It's not only against the "Fair Play" rule, there is annother rule that says that it is forbidden to move base elements/objects in the middle of the fight and use them as shield.
In an other thread @Master said "Players will always try to find "Backdoors" to the rule system and to the game-mechanics" that's exactly what's happening with this tank-turret-door situation. It is allowed to open and close the door of your base in a fight, but it is forbidden to move objects in a fight to use them as cover. People who build a tank-turret with base doors are obviously exploiting the rule system to get an unfair advantage. It's exactly the situation described by master in the other thread...



Higher the costs for base parts extremely would MAYBE help, as long as the parts get really expensinve. For big groups or especially people who block mission spawns/ways with a tank turret it is FAR to easy to get the needed money, yet.



I don't care about the AJ-Base, cause these guys are spending not only their free time to support us and the server, they even pay a lot of money every month since years to keep all of this running.
Furthermore closing base-turrets doors in a fire fight should be punished, as it is against fair play. :ugeek:

Tanvir
Rekrut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu 28. Sep 2017, 17:28

Re: current Base situation

Post by Tanvir » Sun 5. Apr 2020, 10:09

I totally agree with @Diehardly.
Nowadays, player bases have become farming killing machines as players build those base to camp missions, stores and a certain part of the map with main battle tanks and anti-air vehicle and then you have the super-skilled one that is an expert on clicking "T" from a base roof to spam AT and AA at 2km range on nearby vehicles, infantry and mission.

In my opinion, base user should be limit from weaponizing their base.
I believe bases should be used like a re-supply point to gear-up and store vehicle.
Regarding an offensive use of a base structure and assets only if attacked upon or against enemy HVT (unarmed vehicle, jets and tanks)

@PX
:MG: :TANK: :MONITOR:

Tanvir
Rekrut
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Re: current Base situation

Post by Tanvir » Sun 5. Apr 2020, 12:08

HVT --> (*armed vehicles*, jet, tanks angry big birds)

Dog
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Re: current Base situation

Post by Dog » Sun 5. Apr 2020, 12:33

I agree that a well placed and well designed base can give the player a huge advantage but i see that as a reward for the huge amount of time and money required to build the base in the first place along with the ongoing refresh costs!

The great thing about arma is that you have so many strategies open to you. Tanks shooting from bases can still be destroyed easily. Just shoot a titan from further away so they dont hear it or shoot it with a tank, they wont hear the round fire from 2km away and even so wont be able to move away in time. Its not difficult to overrcome, just use a different strategy!

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DieHardly
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Re: current Base situation

Post by DieHardly » Tue 7. Apr 2020, 11:47

Dog wrote:
Sun 5. Apr 2020, 12:33
I agree that a well placed and well designed base can give the player a huge advantage but i see that as a reward for the huge amount of time and money required to build the base in the first place along with the ongoing refresh costs!

The great thing about arma is that you have so many strategies open to you. Tanks shooting from bases can still be destroyed easily. Just shoot a titan from further away so they dont hear it or shoot it with a tank, they wont hear the round fire from 2km away and even so wont be able to move away in time. Its not difficult to overrcome, just use a different strategy!
In theory this works pretty well. In reallity you will not be able to destroy a tank with only one Titan AT-Rocket. In normal cases you would prefere to use the "top-down" firing mode from a launcher, but you can not use these fire mode against base tanks because they are parked in a turret which has an undestructable roof (base parts). Even if you manage to hit the enemy tank in the base, the base/tank owner will just close his turret doors immediately and repair his tank. In almost all cases of base-tank-turrets the base owners have a resupply/repair vehicle parked in direct range of their tank - so they are able to rearm/repair unlimited times.

I guess nobody here has a problem with bases in general. The source of the mentioned problem in this thread is, that players are abusing moveable base elements (tank turret doors, which are open and closed in the middle of a fight) to get an unfair advantage in a fight. And that's the only reason why players keep using these tactic. They know it's almost impossible to kill their tanks in these position. The whole is based in having an unfair play-style. None of those guys is interested in having a fight, they just want to farm players and ruin their game-experience.

As said earlier:
There are rules which say that moving objects in a fire fight is not allowed. For months players are abusing base doors and exploiting the rules, obviously. Why a behaviour like this is NOT getting punished? Where is the "fair play" in this?
A few days ago RA got banned for excessive force. At least this decision was based on the fair play rule - why there is NO action against an obviously unfair kind of playstyle which is runing the game for a lot of players since months?
Furthermore closing base-turrets doors in a fire fight should be punished, as it is against fair play. :ugeek:

BobitoFinito
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Re: current Base situation

Post by BobitoFinito » Wed 8. Apr 2020, 09:18

@Dog: Try to fight the tank-turret on Tanoa on the base at the antenna between Harcourt and Lijnhaven then. ;) When they open the door, you only see the gun and maybe the turret a bit. Because they have the highground (and Modular-Bunker-Blocks in front of the tank) and the only other spots which are on similiar altitude are not accessible by large armored vehicles. And are to far away for infantry AT weapons. And as soon they get attacked, they close the door and repair it with a repair vehicle. So only an unexpected lucky one-hit would be able to kill it.

Also they have perfect view into the gun store down there, and abuse the circle which shows enemy players in it, as alarm to open the door, kill mostly infantry with the tank (excessive force maybe?) and close it afterwards. Which is a really unfair and poor gameplay in my eyes and kills the game-experience for many players.
And another thing is, the base is pretty far away of the city, so you only see it, when you right-click-zoom-in. So if you're new to the map, maybe you miss the fact that a base is up there and then get killed suddenly out of nowhere.

Dog
Rekrut
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Re: current Base situation

Post by Dog » Fri 10. Apr 2020, 03:22

I don't play Tanoa so cant really comment on the base location but most base campers use an AA vehicle against infantry which can be destroyed with a singlw titan with a direct hit. Given these can be guided 3km with max view distance settings there will be plenty kf places to hide to shoot it from.

Armour piercing rounds from most battle tanks should also destroy the tank in one shot too, these rounds will penetrate most walls the tank will be hiding behind too!

If you shoot either from over a km away they wont hear the shot so will have no advance warning and wont be able to hide the tank.

Tanvir
Rekrut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu 28. Sep 2017, 17:28

Re: current Base situation

Post by Tanvir » Fri 10. Apr 2020, 08:13

Everything you say is possible if all the odds of success are with you.

May I remind you that most base campers don't play alone and secondly most of the time they use drones, vehicles with active radar and so on... Taking in count those resources available to them the odds of success drops below 50% as it is a wasteland there isn't a collective objective meaning a player could be killed by someone else while attempting to neutralise the camper, therefore, at the end of the day the player has a number of options which are: avoid the area, keep dying from the camper, attempt to kill the camper with the option described by you(Dog) or camp the base camper.

If you talk about fair play, the (fair play )balance tends to be on the favour of the base camper in any situation. (Where is the fair play then? :?: )

Currently, there isn't a server rule that directly mentions "No base camping".
I would suggest to the AJ team to consider to introduce that rule or link that to fair play clearly.

Meanwhile, If all base owners and users would avoid over abusing their base structure and assets it would a gesture of kindness from you to all those old and new players(mostly them).

@PX :MG:

PS: To all base owners and users avoid camping from a base ... Get down on the field it's more fun and try to feel the vibe of being unsafe after all it's a wasteland server.

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